Real Talk on Mental Health

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey, team, it's Ryan van de Haye here. About four months ago, I was diagnosed with PTSD, resulting in symptoms of depression and anxiety. This was due to a handful of SAR case index traumas, as well as an external coast guard event. The episode that we did on PTSD received a lot of great support and people wanting to know more. Sam, Kenny, and I were traveling to mobile to sit down together and catch up after the whirlwind of a year that I've been on. And we decided to break out the recording equipment and record our conversation in the off chance that maybe something that was said would help someone out there. It took a lot for us to be vulnerable. It took a lot for us to open up in the ways that we did. I truly believe that vulnerability begets vulnerability, and I really hope that something in this resonates with you out there and helpful to the fleet. I know that I am incredibly grateful to have two friends in my life like Sam and Kenny, who have given me love and compassion when I didn't really feel either for myself. And I hope you know that you have that, too. We've each left our personal cell phone numbers in the show doc below. If you or anyone you know resonates with any piece of this episode, please talk to somebody. Get help. Because the more we are vulnerable with each other, the more that we hold compassion and love for each other, the better this organization will be. I truly believe that this journey has made me stronger and better as a person, as a father, as a pilot, and I hope the best for all of you out there. You're not alone. Fly safe. Stay strong. Fleds it for any team. Don't want to live as an untold story while I go out in a blaze of glory. I can't hear you. [00:02:00] Speaker B: Right, sweet Friday listeners. What's going on? [00:02:02] Speaker A: Grow back. Got the gang back together. [00:02:04] Speaker B: Dudes. [00:02:05] Speaker A: What's up? [00:02:06] Speaker B: Nothing, man. We are coming from mobile, Alabama. [00:02:10] Speaker C: Sweaty. Mobile, Alabama? Yes. Middle of the summer, outside by the pool. Thousand degrees and the bajillion. [00:02:18] Speaker A: Thanks, Blake and Maggie, for letting us use your house. [00:02:20] Speaker C: Yep. I think before we get started, you're maybe sitting on the cooler beers over there. [00:02:25] Speaker B: I am. [00:02:26] Speaker C: Hold on. I feel like I'd be amiss to do anything with this podcast before I have one of those in my hand. [00:02:34] Speaker A: So I'm sticking with my Diet Coke tonight. So I appreciate you guys efforts. [00:02:38] Speaker C: Yeah, you bet. I got a give me the blaster Tron 5000. [00:02:43] Speaker B: Juicy monkey. Yeah, I picked this one out. It's. [00:02:47] Speaker A: Don't you guys have a double in there that we got to get. [00:02:49] Speaker B: This is 5.9%. [00:02:50] Speaker C: That's not Kenny approved, though. [00:02:52] Speaker B: Oh, it's 9.5. Sorry. [00:02:54] Speaker C: Is it? [00:02:55] Speaker B: Yeah, it's 9.5. [00:02:56] Speaker C: Okay. [00:02:56] Speaker B: A little dyslexic. [00:02:57] Speaker C: It does say pack and a punch. Juicy monkey. Hazy Imperial IPA from Victory Brewing Company. [00:03:02] Speaker A: It sounds like a 9.5 kind of name. [00:03:04] Speaker C: Thank you, Kenny. [00:03:05] Speaker B: Cheers. [00:03:06] Speaker C: Cheers. I'm excited to be back on the podcast with you guys. This is kind of crazy. [00:03:12] Speaker B: It has been a while. [00:03:14] Speaker C: It's not our jam anymore. No, we got new. New guys and butts and seats. I don't know. I don't know what I'm trying to say over here. New guys. [00:03:22] Speaker A: And that's why we fired it. [00:03:24] Speaker C: Yeah, I think that's why I'm not on this anymore. Oh, man. It's good to see you guys. [00:03:28] Speaker A: Your mom still listen even though you're not on? [00:03:30] Speaker C: No. No, I don't. Yeah, probably not. Maybe. Maybe she still does. She probably doesn't understand anything. What's up, Kenny? [00:03:37] Speaker B: Nothing. I had. I had a great week. [00:03:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:03:40] Speaker B: I got the opportunity to come out to Mobile and for a couple meetings with ship helo and trade up and happened to talk myself onto the flight schedule with Mister Sam Hafensteiner. [00:03:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Boondoggle. [00:03:54] Speaker C: I was a great flight reservist. And Kenny go out for some what can go wrong. Very important training. [00:04:00] Speaker A: I heard you made Kenny redo. [00:04:02] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Kenny had to redo everything. [00:04:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:06] Speaker C: Subpar performance. [00:04:07] Speaker A: You're reading this checklist wrong, didn't you, dude? [00:04:09] Speaker C: Kenny goes in and we're doing helipad landings. And his first helipad landing, I was like, well, that's better than anything I could ever do. He hadn't wiggled the sticks in a year. [00:04:18] Speaker B: That's actually not true. [00:04:19] Speaker C: Okay. Sweet. [00:04:20] Speaker B: Sam was like, do it again. I thought it was pretty good. Sam, he's like, I'm gonna give you a chance. Just do it again. And then the next one, he's like. [00:04:28] Speaker A: Well, if you want to meet the s level, then fine, but like, yeah, too shallow approach. [00:04:33] Speaker B: Do it again. [00:04:33] Speaker A: Your favorite. [00:04:34] Speaker B: I thought, we're just having a fun flight, Sam, like, your favorite point was. [00:04:37] Speaker C: When I took us up to 8500ft for cooling airflow. Yep. [00:04:42] Speaker B: And open the doors for 20 seconds, and then we had to descend back down. That was the worst part of the fight. [00:04:48] Speaker C: Oh, it's good. Good. [00:04:49] Speaker B: We did see some gators. [00:04:51] Speaker C: Big gators, big hammerhead shark. Wave the flag. Tried to do a little recruiting, got a lot of good training in over Pensacola. Yep. Yeah, it was a great flight. It's sad that you had to come to mobile to get a fan flight, but I know. Come on back, dude. [00:05:06] Speaker B: Like, I wish there was an air station close to pac area that I. [00:05:10] Speaker C: Honestly don't know if there is. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think there is. But I listened to your guys's podcast about PTSD and mental health the other day with Captain Pat Dill, right? [00:05:20] Speaker A: Correct. [00:05:21] Speaker C: Yeah. Which I thought was really good. And I have always been afraid to even try and broach the subject of mental health with a flight dock or think about it. I don't know, pursue it. And that podcast, that was really helpful for me, and I hope it was helpful for a lot of other listeners. And so I think today we're going to go along that same vein with a personal story that probably will hit home for a few of you and maybe not, but yeah, since that podcast. [00:05:48] Speaker B: Ryan has been on a journey, and I think it's a powerful journey that's not going to be easy to talk about. I think my voice is already cracking. [00:06:01] Speaker A: There's a lot of allergies. Feeling truck. [00:06:04] Speaker B: Yeah, there's going to be some vulnerability on this episode, and that's awesome. And, yeah. Ryan and Har man, for at least attempting it. [00:06:15] Speaker A: We'll see how it goes. Yeah, it might be a long one, too. We're just going to go and tell the story that needs to be told. Yeah. [00:06:21] Speaker C: Yeah, I like it. [00:06:22] Speaker A: So. Yeah. [00:06:24] Speaker C: Well, where are you at right now, ry? [00:06:26] Speaker A: Are you. [00:06:26] Speaker C: Are you flying? You're not flying? [00:06:28] Speaker A: Not flying. [00:06:29] Speaker C: Okay. [00:06:30] Speaker A: Grounded, I guess. An indefinite grounding. [00:06:33] Speaker C: Okay. [00:06:35] Speaker A: The earliest that I could seek a waiver would be like a year with everything that's gone on. I'm transitioning out of Houston. Going to stay in Houston. Huge shout out to OPM. Being as forward leaning as they are. Ian Culver. Thanks, man. Going to be taking on a remote work job that is still kind of in the works and being finalized for another year with plan to, like, PCs and maybe go up to the headquarters next, depending on what Savannah's got going on in the future. But yeah. So out of aviation and going to be teleworking for headquarters. Start date in August. [00:07:16] Speaker C: Excited? [00:07:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Site for a new adventure. More excited for being in a better place than I was over the last couple years. And I'm hopeful that kind of making this transition, but more so, like, going on the journey that I went on is going to enable me to be better equipped for still doing great things for the organization, because I like to think that I have something to offer, and so I'm hopeful that I can continue to do that. [00:07:55] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. Well, you definitely have something to offer. [00:07:58] Speaker B: So for those that don't know what's kind of been going on, like, oh, yeah. What actually happened? Why are you out of aviation? [00:08:06] Speaker C: Why are you currently med down? [00:08:08] Speaker A: What's going on? Yeah. So, back in flight school, I wasn't feeling that great mentally, and went to Humboldt at first, the move was fine, and then started to, like, kind of go downhill a little bit. Honestly, I think I've told the story of one of the cases on this podcast before, but one of my first cases, picking up a 15 year old boy that had been crushed by a log, um, I got out of the helo and helped, like, carry the litter and talked on one of the shows of, like, yeah, I'd made a mistake early on in that flight and held that against myself. Um, and that. Plus, I had, um, a couple other things going on early on in my humble, uh, time, and I was like, hey, this. Like, how come I'm so kind of, like, I feel numb to these things? Like, should it be affecting me? And I was like, yeah, maybe it's just, like, not affecting me. But then that kind of thought sat in the back of my brain, and I was realizing that nothing was really affecting me and that I wasn't really having any highs or lows. Then everything was just kind of all kind of low, and so I decided to go see a therapist. [00:09:35] Speaker C: On your own or on my own. [00:09:37] Speaker A: Okay. Didn't tell anybody. [00:09:39] Speaker C: Can I ask why you didn't tell anybody? [00:09:42] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I was out of flight school by, like, a year, and I didn't want anyone to take away the thing that I had worked so many years to get to. [00:09:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:09:54] Speaker A: Like, between the academy and flight school, like, it was a six year journey, seven year journey to be in that specific moment. Right. I didn't want anyone to take it away from me. [00:10:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:04] Speaker A: And I also didn't think that I was, like, anything was wrong. [00:10:07] Speaker C: Okay. [00:10:08] Speaker A: I was still kind of in denial. I was like, oh, I'll go talk to somebody and see if maybe they can. Like, that. Maybe nothing's wrong. Which I shouldn't know, because. But. So I started talking to the therapists, and we talked about, like, depression and anxiety and stuff like that, and I started feeling way better. Like, therapy helped me a ton. Yeah. And I hit, like, a peak right towards the end of my time in Humboldt. I was feeling amazing. [00:10:40] Speaker B: Is that over a couple months was. [00:10:41] Speaker A: That took a couple of years. Yeah, it took like, maybe a year and a half. [00:10:46] Speaker C: Okay. [00:10:46] Speaker A: And I was out of pocket for therapy every week. [00:10:50] Speaker C: Dang. [00:10:50] Speaker A: Paying like $200 a session. So you can do the math on that one. [00:10:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:57] Speaker A: And I was just, like, coordinating it. I wasn't telling. I was just on oncoming days or sliders or after work, just kind of figuring it out. But I started feeling better. And so, like, for me, I. There's this big, like, aha moment for me when I started feeling better of. I was on deployment in Japan, and I were hiking fuji. And that's a crazy story that, like, we can tell offline for, like, all of that story, but, like, there's a. We started the hike at 06:00 at night. Cause we were told that seeing the sunrise at the top was the way to go. So we started the hike at six at night and then may or may not have a flight. Had a flight back. Thanks, Eric Delonge. That didn't know the difference between meters and feet, and so we misjudged the elevation gain. [00:11:49] Speaker C: Oh, boy. [00:11:51] Speaker A: So he's like, yeah, it's just a 2000 foot elevation gain over, like, 10 miles. Yeah, that's not bad. Nope. Easy. But anyways, like, in the middle of the night, I was, like, really struggling to get up that mountain. And I had, like, this aha moment. This, like, epiphany of, like, wow, I'm, like, doing this for me. I want to climb this mountain. I want to succeed. I'm not doing this to prove a point to anybody else or because it's someone else's identity. This is what I want to do. I'm doing something for me. And that was a big moment for me because a lot of my depression was centered around just not feeling like I was making my own decisions or doing things for me. I was just falling in line with people like you. And I hung out in flight school. [00:12:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:12:39] Speaker A: Picked up surfing because Sam surfs. Sam likes to surf. [00:12:41] Speaker C: So. [00:12:43] Speaker A: So, like, sometimes that's great, but, like, I was. I didn't. Like. I wasn't doing things that I wanted to do for me. But anyway, that was, like, a big aha moment. It's cool. Cause that's around the time I met Savannah. Anyway, fast forward a few years. Felt great in mobile. Actually felt, like, healthy for once in my life for, like, an extended period of time. [00:13:05] Speaker B: And were there any other, like, sar cases that happened that kind of, like, trigger that and you were able to bounce back or did it affect you. How did. How did that happen? [00:13:20] Speaker A: Yeah, so I had another shark case with a dad that got swept off by a sneaker wave right by the air stay, and we were able to rush out. I was able, like, stop a fueling evolution, like, mid fueling, and just gave him a number. We got on scene and immediately found the guy because. And it was, like, a small cove, so we parked it in a hover in the middle of the COVID And just everybody looked in their quadrants. Like, the crew worked amazing. Found the guy immediately. It was pretty challenging. Hoist picked up the guy, but, like, he never had a chance, right. But, like, when we landed the hospital pad, they took him out on the litter. And I, like, made the mistake of, like, looking back and, like, seeing him being pulled out of the helicopter. [00:14:09] Speaker C: Oh, man. [00:14:10] Speaker A: It just, like, has stuck with me for a long time in life. But at the time, I worked through it in therapy, and it felt way better. Yeah, I was like, oh, man, I'm, like, processing this. So that happened. Had some, like, family stuff go down. Um, and that wasn't, like, super fun, but, um, those sarcasm that sarcase happened and then went to mobile, and everything was great. Like, I felt really healthy. I throttled my therapy back to, like, every, like, six weeks. Just, like, check ins and Covid was great for me. Sorry, everybody. That wasn't. But, like, savannah and I's relationship was great. We just had to have a kid because I was feeling so good. I accomplished a lot in mobile because I had the bandwidth for it, and Savannah was like, why are you working so hard? [00:15:08] Speaker B: I mean, the podcast was birthed out of this extra bandwidth, so that's pretty cool. [00:15:11] Speaker A: Yeah, thank you for that. Like, Savannah was asking me one day, not, like, why are you working so hard? But, like, where are you getting this, like, energy from? And I was like, I feel like I have not been living my life until now. And so, like, I can actually do all of these things. [00:15:26] Speaker C: You went full send, dude. [00:15:27] Speaker A: I went full send. [00:15:28] Speaker C: You're sending it? [00:15:29] Speaker A: Yeah. And then we PCs to Houston. And towards the end of the time in mobile, like, I started kind of feeling kind of down again, but I just attributed it to, I've been in full send mode for so long. Like, that's getting a burnout. I'm just riding a burnout. Like, PCs to Houston. Like, get a reset, start sand duty. They'll feel better. And then over the last, like, two years in Houston, I've just, like, been on a slow trend in the wrong direction and again been in therapy for so long that I saw the warning signs, right. The, like, for me, like, five things that I, like, was really holding on to in life, right? Be a good dad, be a good husband. Take care of my body and my mind, be a good pilot, be a good officer. Right? Those are five things that, like, were pretty important to me. [00:16:31] Speaker C: Okay. [00:16:32] Speaker A: So, like, life's going on, things are getting a little bit harder. Like, eh, I don't take care of my body as much. Right. Just a phase. Like, just eat the crappy food. [00:16:43] Speaker B: Just. [00:16:43] Speaker A: You got a two year old. Like, yeah. You don't have to work out as much. Like, you'll be fine. So stop taking care of my body. Then, like, now, what do you do? Like, uh, I could kind of throttle back a little bit at work, but they asked me to be an a ops, so. Yeah. [00:17:00] Speaker C: What was your. Yeah, let me dive into that real quick. What was your work at Houston? So you went there, you were the supplier? [00:17:07] Speaker A: Supplier, yeah. [00:17:09] Speaker C: And then you started taking ops calls. At what point? [00:17:13] Speaker A: I started filling in for ops calls. Maybe about a year in. [00:17:17] Speaker C: Okay. [00:17:18] Speaker A: Right. When I was, like, taking over a ops. [00:17:20] Speaker C: Okay. [00:17:20] Speaker A: Or maybe just before, like, it get my feet wet. [00:17:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:17:24] Speaker A: And then, like, supply, I was, like, manageable. Right. And the newness of the air stay and everything like that. There are a couple, like, tough moments. Like, Savannah did a six week tdy to go learn about how to be an investigator. [00:17:39] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:17:40] Speaker A: And we had a six month old, so just solo dad with a six month old standing. Six duties gotta survive. [00:17:47] Speaker B: I don't remember who it was. Maybe it was Gaffigan, the, like, stand up comedian. He has a good saying. [00:17:53] Speaker A: Love that quote. [00:17:53] Speaker B: It's just like, you know, when dad takes over, it's. It's kind of like being the backup quarterback. Like, you're on the team. You've got the jersey, but when, like, the main quarterback gets hurt, like, everyone is nervous, including you. [00:18:10] Speaker A: And. Oh, man. And the other great quote I love from him of when he talks about having more kids, he's like, have you ever felt like you're drowning and then someone hands you a kiss? Yeah. But, yeah, so the first year was pretty manageable. Like, I didn't really have too much of a downward slide. I just, like, started feeling. Feeling the, like, slow, like, signs of it. Right. Which, for me, starts with, like, not taking care of myself. [00:18:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:38] Speaker A: And then. And then took over the AoPs job, and I really wanted to pour my heart and soul into that job because it's the only job that ever wanted in the organization. [00:18:51] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:52] Speaker A: Was to be an aops, just running the wardroom training plan, like, helping co pilots, seeing the success and seeing someone come back from a flight and, like, wide eyed and excited and telling you about all the cool things they did. Like, it is the greatest feeling in the world to, like, have someone just be so proud of themselves. [00:19:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:18] Speaker A: And, like, knowing that you were a part of that journey for them. [00:19:23] Speaker C: I want to be in a Ups now. Damn you, dude. [00:19:26] Speaker A: Sam, you just have Fomo. I could say. I could have said anything. [00:19:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:30] Speaker A: Kenny, I really want to go skiing right now. Sam wants to go ski. Yeah, but, like, so I was pouring my. So go back to the things that are important to me. Right. I stopped taking care of myself. Well, now, like, my job feels so important to me because I've, like, not only, like, I've been striving for this for a long time. Like, I used to say, a hars instructor was, like, the. The only job I ever wanted. [00:19:51] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:51] Speaker A: Um, which maybe it's part of the thing that's wrong with me is, like, every time I get a new cool thing, it's the only thing I ever wanted. Right. So that's part of it. But, like, I didn't want to fail in that job, so I started failing in the places that I thought I could or not that I thought I could. I just started failing in other places, not by choice, but because I was failing. And so I started being not as good of a husband. Like, I just wasn't. And so now be a good dad, be a good officer, like, a ops, and be a good pilot. Right. Those three things are keeping me going, and the cracks start to show. So Savannah and I started, like, couples counseling. And because we're like, what's. What's going on? Let's try to fix this. And then what? [00:20:44] Speaker B: I don't know. I feel like we've talked about this before. I know. I've had discussions where it's like, man, why? Of, like, all those things on your list. [00:20:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:52] Speaker B: That's not one that should be at the top of, like, oh, I can. I can slack in this. [00:20:57] Speaker A: Right. [00:20:57] Speaker B: But, yeah. How often does work get the best version of ourself? [00:21:01] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:21:02] Speaker C: I think it's because it's the best hours of the day that you, like, your body is naturally energetic like you are. You wake up, you're ready to go do something, and then you immediately leave anybody you have at home, and then you. You're at work, you have your other work family. [00:21:19] Speaker B: I agree with that to a certain extent. [00:21:21] Speaker C: Okay. [00:21:21] Speaker A: For me, it wasn't a choice the way it happened, okay. Because for me, I was exerting so much energy to overcome the, like, anxiety and stress during the day. [00:21:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:36] Speaker A: That I would get home and I would just literally have no bandwidth left. [00:21:40] Speaker B: But I guess. Let me give. [00:21:42] Speaker A: Please challenge. [00:21:43] Speaker B: Let me give this example, because you're like, yep, I get home. I just have zero bandwidth left. What happens when the copilot calls you on your cell phone and they're like, hey, I've got this. I got this thing tomorrow and the schedules or, hey, I need a swap. Are you going to be short with that copilot? [00:22:01] Speaker A: That's why we started couples counseling, because Savannah and I were having. It wasn't really an argument, but, like, I was feeling pretty emotional and wasn't, like, feeling great and not having a lot of patience in a conversation. And I got a phone call from a copilot asking a random systems question, and I snapped, flipped the switch, and was perfect. Ryan. [00:22:27] Speaker B: Yep. [00:22:27] Speaker A: Work Ryan. That we started calling it work Ryan. And really? Yeah. And I hung up the phone, and Savannah was like, why can't you do that for me? And immediately I knew that I was wrong because, like, it wasn't a choice for me not to be a good husband. It was like a. It just, like, happened naturally. Like, I didn't know how not to be that version at work, but it took so much energy to be that version at work that I felt more vulnerable with Savannah. So then I was trying to be more myself at home, but being myself was hurt. Being myself was anxious. Being myself was, like, not doing well. And so then I didn't have patience. And so for me, when Savannah said, why can't you do that for me? The thought that went through my head was, I hate that person. I don't want to be that person. I put on a face and I bury everything that's going on in my life so that I can be that person. If I'm also that person at home. Like, I can't do that. [00:23:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:34] Speaker A: And so that the problem of, like, peeling it all back is like, yeah, you shouldn't be making that choice. You shouldn't be falling into that trap of, like, being that inauthentic so that you have zero bandwidth at home. [00:23:49] Speaker B: Yeah, it happened to. It happened to me, actually. [00:23:52] Speaker A: Really? [00:23:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:53] Speaker B: I took a work call. It was, like, Saturday morning, and Alex is just like, who is that? I was like, oh, it's work. And I could tell, like, it wasn't, like, a jealousy thing of, like, who was that? It was like when you answered that call, you were cheerful. You were, like, smiling, you were helpful. Like, you were bending over backwards to help whoever that was on the other line. And how bad did your heart hurt after you said that? [00:24:21] Speaker A: Dude, it sinks. [00:24:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:24:23] Speaker B: I mean, just the bottom drops out of it, you know? [00:24:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:26] Speaker C: It's. It's hard not to be that way sometimes. [00:24:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:29] Speaker C: It's hard not to separate work from your home life, I think, in any job, but I feel like in the coast guard a lot because you're. We're always on call. [00:24:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:40] Speaker C: You know, if you're in a duty standing, you're always on call. Like, always somebody's got to text you and you're obliged to answer, even if it's just like, no, sorry, I had a beer. You know, like, you're always on call. [00:24:52] Speaker A: And then taking ops calls, but even not taking ops calls, like, you'd get the call from the young acs before they call ops, right. Or not before they call, but, like, before they call ops on a training flight, they're like, hey, can I run somebody real quick? Yeah. Whether it's this, what are your thoughts? Like, yeah, and so. And, yeah, I hold. And so, like, don't get me wrong. Like, I. I hold so much guilt and shame around how I went about all of that. Like, I. I'm really regretful of all of that, of, like, letting myself get to a point where I was feeling like I was unable to be myself at work and feeling like when I was trying to be myself, I had zero capacity because then Mavis would need me. [00:25:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:46] Speaker A: And guess which version she got. Awesome, caring, loving, patient dad. Not always, right? Because, yeah, perfect. [00:25:52] Speaker B: But, like, to your own. [00:25:53] Speaker A: Yeah, but, like, you get that. And then Savannah's like, is that for me? I was like, I need a nap before I can give that to you. Like, yeah, shit. Yeah. So that started. We started couples counseling. Right. And so now trying to be those three things, and then the cracks kind of start to show. Never really showed in the aircraft for me. There are definitely flights that, like, I wasn't. Didn't feel like I was on and stuff. [00:26:20] Speaker C: But was the aircraft your safe space? [00:26:22] Speaker A: Yeah. The aircraft was the only place that I felt like I could be present. And it's because the aircraft forces you to be present. Like, there's always been a hundred foot bubble around the aircraft for me, of, like, I get in that hundred foot bubble. Like, um, actually, one of the co pilots at Houston mentioned this to me one day. He's like, after the flight. He said, hey, man, in the morning, you kind of looked a little bit, like, a little bit off, like, maybe on edge or something like that. And he's like, you put on your helmet, and you became a different person. And I was like, yeah, it all washes away from me. As soon as I put on my helmet. It's gone. [00:27:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:00] Speaker A: And it's a wonderful feeling. And, like, in the moment, flying. [00:27:06] Speaker B: I know we're taught to compartmentalize, but sometimes it's just, like a natural compartment. [00:27:10] Speaker A: It's innate, right? [00:27:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:27:12] Speaker A: Because you know you're going to be doing something demanding, and you're also 100% focused. 100% focused. But that was. [00:27:19] Speaker C: That's where all your focus is. [00:27:21] Speaker A: That's where I started seeing the cracks in flying. I was incapable of going on a beach cruise. I started feeling, like, not liking just general coasting flights because I started needing more pressure to keep you focused. Keep myself focused. [00:27:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:27:41] Speaker A: Not, like, in a crazy, like, doing stupid crap way, but, like, in a. We got a new copilot. Let's train hard today. Like, let's go do a bunch of hospital pad landings. Let's go do an IFR trainer. Let's go. Like, the copilots were probably like, man, like, does Ryan ever just, like, chill? Like, can we. Do we have to go do this thing? Do I have to wear the foggles today? [00:28:03] Speaker C: They probably got a lot of your training, though, too. [00:28:05] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. And a lot of talking, because when I'm nervous, I talk. [00:28:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:28:09] Speaker B: Sam, you and I were 100% focused our entire flight. [00:28:13] Speaker C: We were incredible. Hyper focused, hyper alert. Dude, the most hyper alert. My shoulder was hurting from the waving I was doing. Dude, it was out of control. [00:28:22] Speaker A: But, like, when I lost. When I started losing that focus, some of the, like, the not anxiety, but, like, I started just not feeling comfortable. [00:28:31] Speaker B: Yeah. You and I were talking, and I thought your wording was interesting, and it was about this. We're like, yeah, you'd be nervous, a little anxious. You go flying, and it was fantastic. [00:28:42] Speaker A: Yep. [00:28:43] Speaker B: What happened when you got back from the crap? [00:28:46] Speaker A: I would get back and out. Like, it would all just, like, wash over me, and I would feel that, like, release and that, like, all the things that you were compartmentalizing, all the doors just opened. It just, like, flooded back into me. So then I would feel exhausted, like, totally mentally, like, exhausted. And, like, we've all been on those flights, you know, doing an rt four with no moon. You come back and you're wiped out. Right. It was that every single flight for me, I just couldn't recover. And then I started, like, not looking forward to flights and not looking forward to duty. And so now I'd have duty with a 03:00 relief and I just sit around the house all day trying to conserve energy, try to conserve mental energy. Like, I'm not going to do the dishes because, like, or clean the house and vacuum, like, fold laundry. Just, I'm not going to do these things to try to, like, conserve some energy. And then I go to duty and then fly, get, like, not so great sleep because I'm, like, not coming off the stress very well and then fly again the next day. And then I come home and I'm just emotionally wrecked. So going back to, like, why do we choose not to be the best versions of ourselves? A lot of it was flying related and I was being a bad husband because, like, then I'd get home and maybe said, or Savannah had Mavis for the last 24 hours on a weekend. And so, like, hey, can you do the bedside routine? Yeah, sure. That makes sense. That's a fair request. And so then I'd give Mavis all my energy and then I'd be gone. So wiped at that point. I like redlining. And you don't ever feel like you can recover from that because then you got another duty in another couple days or now you got ops calls. [00:30:32] Speaker B: And it's a double edged sword because if I'm hearing you right, you're like, yeah, the one thing that allowed me to be free was flying. Yeah, but the number one thing that. Or not. Maybe not the number one thing, but one of the major stressors was anxiety of flying. [00:30:46] Speaker A: Yeah. And it was weird and, like, and I didn't know how to, like, figure that out because, like, I've never been someone that just likes flying for the sake of flying anyways. Like, I go to the driving range and just say golf balls for hours. That's my happy, happy place. Right. I love the grind of things and, like, getting a little bit better. I've always enjoyed that. I think me and Scott Swan did, like, 30 min speed landings, one flight, just because we want to see how good we could do it. Yeah, but, like, I love the grind. And so I started using that as, like, my excuse. And Sam, you asked me a question of, like, what can we ask people? Right? Yeah, it was interesting that one of the questions, and we'll revisit this, but, like, one of the questions I kept getting was like, do you want to keep flying? Like, how do you answer that question? [00:31:37] Speaker B: And who was asking that question. [00:31:39] Speaker A: I got that question from Savannah, from flight Doc. This was, like, I was pretty far down the road at this point. Early on, ops sat me down. It was like, hey, man, like, I've been a little bit stressed out lately. Do you want to keep flying? Like, what's going on? I did not know how to answer that question because I did want to fly. Yeah. [00:32:05] Speaker C: I mean, it's crazy because I don't know if I'm speaking for all the pilots, but, like, who doesn't want to set aside all of their collateral duties and everything else they got going on at work and go fly, you know? Like, that's probably at the top of most people's lists of why they're in coast guard aviation. Right. You want to fly, and you probably want to be a part of the culture that we have. [00:32:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:28] Speaker C: And then when that becomes something that's secondary or, like, I don't. I don't know. [00:32:33] Speaker A: Yeah. And even I started having a really weird relationship with flying because I wanted to fly because I loved being in the moment of flying, but I really started to resent flying. [00:32:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:45] Speaker A: And so I didn't know how to answer that. [00:32:47] Speaker B: Yeah. I guess my question to that is you didn't know how to answer it, or were you deep down afraid of what the answer was? [00:32:57] Speaker A: That I was afraid of what the answer was. [00:33:00] Speaker B: And was that, like, internal pressure? Was it external? [00:33:06] Speaker A: Internal? [00:33:07] Speaker B: Internal? [00:33:07] Speaker A: Yeah. But the thing I was afraid of wasn't the thing I should have been afraid of. I was afraid that I didn't want to fly anymore. I was afraid that the thing I had worked so hard for was something I just didn't want to do anymore. [00:33:20] Speaker C: Passionate about it. Yeah. [00:33:21] Speaker A: The thing I should have been afraid of is what happened to me. [00:33:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:26] Speaker A: Right. [00:33:26] Speaker C: Like, why am I at this point? [00:33:27] Speaker A: Yeah. But then it kept going. Right. So, like, that's early. So I think that conversation with ops was in, like, November, and so, like, it kept going. And that conversation with Ops was when I started, like, maybe not doing my desk job as well. [00:33:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:48] Speaker A: I was still a good a ops. I mean, I've always been bad at turning in feb minutes. Kenny knows that. [00:33:56] Speaker C: I mean, who hasn't? [00:33:58] Speaker A: I think I had Sam print him out and route him for me one time because I just went on leave. I was like, my bad. So, like, some of the cracks started showing there, and I started looking a little bit more stressed at work because I love it when the facade starts to fall off and the fractures show the version of you that you present to the world is fading away, but it's actually the real you that's coming out to light. Just that real you is kind of messed up. Right. When those cracks started to show and I started to look a little bit stressed is when some people started asking me questions. Um, but pretty good at compartmentalizing, right? You put me on the spot. Yeah, I'm good. [00:34:49] Speaker C: Damn good. [00:34:50] Speaker A: We got this. Like, I'm just. I'm burning. I'm running a little bit of a burnout. Like, hey, holiday routine's coming up. I'm going to get a little rest. Don't worry, ops. I'm going to give myself, like, a good schedule over holiday routine. Take a little bit of leave and get the reset. Let's hit it hard in January, right? [00:35:08] Speaker C: How much, so you told me this the other day. How much time did you give yourself off? And then how did you feel after the duties that you had? [00:35:15] Speaker A: So before we get to that in October, November is when it really started coming to a head for me of really feeling bad. And we're doing couples therapy. And, um, over the time of my, uh, coast guard career and even a little bit, like, before, um, the victim advocate for the coast guard, like, I've been in closer proximity than I've wanted to with sexual assault cases and victims. And I'm passionate about it, which is why I'm a victim advocate. Right. So the. When the foul danker stuff was happening, I was, like, feeling a little bit on edge about it. And again, I'm not a part of that. I'm not going to, like, weigh in on politically on any of that stuff. It's just like, how it was affecting me was it kind of, like, made me feel a bit weird and I needed to work through that. And again, I'm a vicar at this point, so started talking to her. And then in November, when the sitka mess up happened, I was at home that day. Cause I had a little bit of a head cold. And I also wasn't feeling that great mentally. So I was taking the day. And so that happened, and I felt really alone. I was just on my couch, like, hoping that people are okay, like, not knowing what's going on, getting a whole bunch of text messages. The day that I was taking, like, to be restful now is like the opposite, right? And it. And then my nightmares started, like, creeping up again, which I've struggled with nightmares in the past. They've kind of come in waves, but I think I died in helicopter crashes, like, every night for, like, a week there. Dang. And so then that's about the time that the fracture started to show, and, like, opp sat me down and was like, hey, man, like, real talk. You good? But. And I wanted so bad to be good. [00:37:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:37:13] Speaker A: And I tried to be as honest as I could with him, but I just didn't know the answers. I didn't know if I was good. [00:37:19] Speaker C: You also mentioned that at that time, you were struggling with the thought that aviation isn't forever. That was another one. [00:37:26] Speaker A: Yeah. Identity loss was the third pillar for me that was eroding in the sense of I was coming to the realization that aviation wasn't forever. And, like, now what? And I didn't know what to do in the coast guard. I didn't know what to do in life. And that's, like, broad, existential. I was, like, freaking out that much about, like. But, like, the slow. Like, you're in the golden years of your aviation career. I'm doing the job that I, like, I always wanted to do. And so you kind of know it's like, your senior year, like, soccer season, right? [00:38:02] Speaker B: You're at your peak. [00:38:03] Speaker A: You're at your peak. This is all going away with your buds. [00:38:05] Speaker C: You're just having a good time. [00:38:07] Speaker A: Yeah. And so when that realization hits that, like, man, this isn't forever, like, that was kind of eating away at me, too. [00:38:14] Speaker C: Okay. [00:38:14] Speaker A: So that holiday routine came, and I loaded myself up with duty early on in holiday routine because we had a bunch of people that wanted leave. I was like, great, I can do that. And ops is getting ready to retire, so he's kind of, like, shifting a lot of the workload over to me and, like, taking some leave to go get his family set up. And so I loaded myself up with duty. And also, like, some of the things that have happened to me in the past, like, holidays, aren't really a great time for me emotionally, and so I just wanted to be working. Cause working, like, I was feeding off the anxiety. Like, as much as, like, working was hard, I was not seeing it as hard. I was like, oh, man. At work, I can just burn through it. [00:39:05] Speaker C: Yeah, right. [00:39:05] Speaker A: You can use that anxiety and just, like, let it fuel your day. [00:39:09] Speaker B: Are you able to, like, put into words, like, what that anxiety, like, felt? Felt like, how did it manifest itself? I know it's kind of a tough. [00:39:19] Speaker A: Question, but everyone kind of feels it differently for me. I feel anxiety in my chest, like, a knot in my chest. And then my. When it gets worse and worse, my, like, skin, it feels, like, uncomfortable on my body, and, like, I don't want to be, like, in my skin anymore. And when I was a kid, I would have these reoccurring nightmares where it was, like, a sleep paralysis type of nightmare where I, like, felt lucid in the dream, but it was, like, all white, and I just, like, couldn't move my body. Like, I couldn't move. And so it's like you're trapped in a cage and you can't move. [00:39:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:59] Speaker A: And so, like, that feeling is the feeling I get again now as an adult when I'm, like, feeling anxious. But for me, it's, like, that uncomfortable. And then my thoughts can sometimes race. But honestly, like, I became addicted to the anxiety and addicted to the stress and addicted to the chaos in a sense that, like, I needed it to keep me going because I was afraid that if I stopped, I would fall apart. And so I was using work to medicate myself. I was like, go to work. Stay late. Work your ass off. Do all the things, like, someone needs you. Work, Ryan is stable. Work Ryan is working. Home Ryan is a mess. I don't want to be home Ryan. I don't want to be me. [00:40:49] Speaker C: That's crazy to hear that, dude. [00:40:51] Speaker A: Yeah. And I was just, like. So I was burning the candle at. [00:40:54] Speaker C: Both ends at one point, like, addicted to the camera. [00:40:59] Speaker A: Anxiety was what was getting me up in the morning. It literally was. And so then, like, holiday routine. I, like, loaded up my duties because I just wanted to be working, because if I wasn't working, I was going to have crappy thoughts about crappy things. And then I had, like, a week of, like, off time and holiday routine. And I, like, you know, rolling 72s. Wonderful. And, like, I took some time off. I tried to sleep, tried to relax, and I took a three day, like, Ryan, vacation. Savannah was like, you've been, like, burning yourself to the ground. Like, go take three days. I got you a hotel room for, like, it's two nights, three days, hotel room, literally six minutes from my house. Right. And then brunch. So, like, Savannah met me with Mavis for brunch in the mornings, but, like, I just, like, got away, and I felt anxious the whole time. I felt that, like, coming down from that stress and that anxiety is now how I have to address the feelings that I've been ignoring. [00:42:12] Speaker C: Now you're worried about doing that. [00:42:14] Speaker A: And I didn't want to, because if I address this, if I address this, what if I actually fall apart? [00:42:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:21] Speaker A: And so then after that three days, I felt worse. Sweet. Yeah. [00:42:27] Speaker C: I remember you texting me after that. Yeah. You're like, I feel terrible. Yeah, not good. [00:42:37] Speaker A: And then we had a couples therapy session where we're talking to. And the therapist, like, stopped me in the middle of me saying something. He's like, hey, Ryan, you work pretty hard. Yeah, yeah, I work. I work real hard. Like, Savannah was just saying how I'm at work all the time. Like, I work real hard. He's like, no, no, no. You work really hard to get through the day. And that statement hit me. [00:43:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:07] Speaker A: And I was like, yeah, I do. I feel like I have to put on a face a lot at work and even at home sometimes. And, yeah, I feel like I work pretty hard emotionally, but I'm getting therapy. We're doing couples therapy. Like, we're doing the work. Cause at that point, I had up therapy to, like, every week, right? And he's like, no, that's. That's not okay, man. Yeah, it's not okay what you're doing. And that kind of sat with me pretty heavy. And then we had another couple's session, like, a couple weeks later, and something in that session happened. I don't remember what exactly. And it felt like a rubber band snapped in my chest. Just, like, snapped. [00:44:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:01] Speaker A: And I went entirely numb, like, emotionally, just, like, have you ever, like, been on a perfectly warm summer beach with a really good book, and you're kind of reading the book, and then you doze off and you're just basking in the nothingness of, like, being on the beach? [00:44:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:23] Speaker A: Yeah. That's how I felt. Nothing. Just felt nothing. That. But without the tranquility in the serenity, just, like, nothing. [00:44:32] Speaker C: And it's, like, probably a bodily mental response to maximum stress, anxiety. And it's just like, okay, we're gonna unplug. [00:44:43] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's funny because the next day, the flight dot called me. I was like, we're gonna grind you for a couple weeks. We got the big flight surgeon coming up from mobile. Because, I mean, at this point, my body's falling apart, too, right? I'm not sleeping. Heartburn is waking me up in the middle of the night. My back pain is all over the place. Got an x ray. Fractured l five, but that's manageable. But let's do pt. Get you on the right pain meds overnight. Um, and she's just. The flight doc was like, look, all this stuff, like, is kind of stacking up on you. I think you're fully fit to fly. The flight surgeon's gonna say you're fully fit to fly. But if we ground you for two weeks. We can just have you go to all these appointments and, like, let's get you on the path to write. No talk about, like, mental health or anything like that. It was all, like, physically and then. [00:45:43] Speaker C: Right. [00:45:44] Speaker A: The rubber band had snapped the last night. And so. And part of that too, like, sleep. Like, that was one of the big reasons of, like, hey, what are the things you tell the flight surgeon? I'm sleeping great. I don't drink that much alcohol, and. [00:46:02] Speaker B: I don't think a cup of vegetables every day. [00:46:04] Speaker A: Cup of vegetables every hour. Every hour. You know, I have the whole pyramid. And so, like, even me telling them, hinting at sleep stuff, the only reason I told them about sleep stuff was because I was snoring at night. And it was, like, making it so Savannah couldn't sleep. Like, she had to have earplugs in. But then when she was on duty, she had to be on call. So her duty weeks, she had to, like, sleep in the other bedroom because she couldn't wear earplugs and have duty calls. And so, like, that's the reason I told the flight surgeon that I wasn't sleeping that great. It wasn't because, like, I was feeling crappy. It was because of that. [00:46:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:46:44] Speaker A: And so this is when I called Kenny and going back again to, like, what can friends do? Yeah, I called Kenny, and Kenny. I was pissed. [00:46:55] Speaker B: Yeah. You won't believe. [00:47:00] Speaker A: You won't believe they tried to ground me for this. [00:47:05] Speaker C: I feel like you talked to me earlier and said, like, hey, I'm thinking about. I, like, I need to be grounded. [00:47:10] Speaker A: Yeah, I was thinking about it, and. [00:47:12] Speaker C: I love that you call Kenny. He's like, you won't believe what they. [00:47:15] Speaker A: That's the way it went. Yeah. But, like, before that, I had even, like, considered it of, like, do I just need to, like, be grounded for a little bit? But I wasn't, like, accepting of that or admitting it. So when I called Kenny, I was just, like. I was pissed. I was laid into the flight dock for, like, five minutes, and then Kenny in the, like, perfect Uncle Kenny voice takes a beat and, like, you actually mad at this? You actually mad about this? Yeah. Do you remember, like, how I responded. [00:47:46] Speaker B: That because you said something and I said, yeah, are you okay? And you just like, no, no, no. I'm nothing. Not at all. [00:47:56] Speaker A: No. Yeah. And then I just, um. I think we talked for, like, 30 minutes. And I just, like, started. I was sitting on the curb outside of, like, the marble slab creamery by my house and just. Or whatever creamery is just, like, crying. Yeah. Talking to Kenny and just, like. So you asking me, like, one, like, slow down. Like, you actually upset about this, but then, like, I was still kind of spun up a little bit, and. And when you asked me, just, you. Okay. And, like, you meant it, and I knew that you meant it because so many people ask you, like, how you doing today? You okay? Yeah, fine. Good. [00:48:35] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Little time. But, like, when you asked me and you meant it in the way that you did, I. I realized in that moment that for so long, I had been so desperate for somebody to ask me that question, and, like, I knew Savannah had asked me that question. Right. But, like, it's different. It hits different sometimes. [00:49:01] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:49:04] Speaker B: And I think you probably needed to be in a headspace. [00:49:07] Speaker A: Yes. [00:49:08] Speaker B: Where you were ready to admit it to yourself. [00:49:10] Speaker C: Right. [00:49:10] Speaker B: Like, even if someone asked a legitimate question. I don't know. I don't know. [00:49:13] Speaker A: Your story. 100% true. Yeah. [00:49:16] Speaker B: Like, you had to come to that conclusion, and then someone had to be like, yep. How we. How we doing? [00:49:23] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. And, um. No, that's absolutely true. I think that circumstances and some conversations, you can kind of push, or. I felt like I could be pushed into that direction a little bit more. Like, can you challenge that a little bit? And I think your challenge early, like, grounded me a little bit of, like, no, I'm challenging the way that you're talking about this right now. [00:49:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:49:50] Speaker A: Because so many people, like, if someone's just talking to you, you either try to come up with solutions. [00:49:59] Speaker C: Yep. [00:49:59] Speaker A: Or you're like, oh, yeah, that sucks, man. Right. And you totally validate, which are two good things to do. But in some scenarios, that challenge of, like, challenge yourself, like, are you actually feeling the things you're saying you're feeling? [00:50:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:16] Speaker A: Or what's. What's really going on right now? A heartfelt question, because, like, anger is a secondary emotion. A lot of times, it's hurt, shame, it's guilt. It's all this other stuff. So. Yeah. So can you give me the advice of, like, take a couple weeks, work on you, work on your relationship with Savannah, figure out what's actually really important to you and what's hurting, and then kind of go from there? And this is around the time that I talked to both of you guys of, like, man, do I just, like, come clean to the flight surgeon that I've been dealing with, like, depression for a long time? [00:50:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:56] Speaker A: Like, is that what's been going on? And I. And I was like, if I tell the flight surgeon, I'm done, done, done. Like, you don't come back from that. And, like, I only got a year left here. If I tell the flight surgeon, then by the time they get me met up again and I get recalled again, then I'm pcsing, right? So I was like, maybe I can hold on. And around this time, like, I had, like, just found out, like, not. I'm not going to flee up the Ops, which is great. Like, real glad that I was a long shot anyway. Super junior. Like, there's no way I was gonna get that anyway. But, like, I knew that my orders were ending in 25, so I was like, cool. Maybe I can just get myself to 2025. [00:51:46] Speaker C: Yeah, just push the can down the road, dude. We'll figure this out. [00:51:50] Speaker A: Don't take the cowards way out. I kept telling myself. [00:51:52] Speaker C: Yeah. Oh, really? [00:51:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:55] Speaker C: That's it, man. That's an. It's a perspective, dude. Don't take the coward's way out. [00:51:59] Speaker A: Yeah, keep flying. Do your job. Be a good a ops. [00:52:03] Speaker C: Yeah, you are. Don't. Don't address your mental health. [00:52:06] Speaker A: Like, yeah. People tell you that you're good at your job. People tell you that you're valuable. People tell you that you're needed. [00:52:12] Speaker C: Yeah. It gives you a little bit of a boost. [00:52:15] Speaker A: Yeah. They don't just say it with their words, but they say it with their actions, like getting phone calls. I got a text from one of the new acs in Houston on my drive here, talking about, like, hey, I'm asking so and so questions. Come up for an FP board. Like, you got any advice? Like, they. They tell you about their love with their actions, too. [00:52:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:52:36] Speaker A: Um, and so, yeah, I didn't want to tell the flight surgeon because it's like, I want to end my aviation career on my terms. I don't want to end it on the flight surgeon's terms. [00:52:50] Speaker B: And then how much of that? Like, that, obviously, what you just said is one part. I'm assuming there was some pressure to not let your comrades down, right? Like, your shipmates down of, like. And we're already standing seven duties if Ryan goes down. Oh, my God, that's eight. Eight and a half. [00:53:08] Speaker C: Hey, opps is retiring. Like, I need to step up. [00:53:11] Speaker A: Opps is retiring. I'm gonna be acting opps until, like, two, probably, right? Actually. Probably, like, July. [00:53:18] Speaker C: Dang. [00:53:19] Speaker A: Was the. The expected timeline. [00:53:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:23] Speaker A: And it's gonna be a tough transfer season. We're gonna be saying a lot of duty. We got the airfac. We had a lot. So I started doing little things it was good for us to, like, push the airfact dates, but I started setting the unit up for me to be gone, which me doing that is like a huge red flag. [00:53:48] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:53:50] Speaker A: But. [00:53:53] Speaker B: Because. And I'm asking that question because we have all felt it in our career. Right. If I take that leave, if I go med down, if I am not present, then someone's going to have to pick up my slack. Yeah, absolutely. But in this case, I would challenge that. Nobody would have that opinion, despite what we tell ourselves. Right? [00:54:22] Speaker A: Yes. [00:54:22] Speaker B: If someone knew that you were deeply, deeply struggling. [00:54:26] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:54:28] Speaker B: Wouldn't cross your mind? Wouldn't cross my mind. [00:54:30] Speaker A: Which is the love that I've received. [00:54:32] Speaker C: Yeah. And on the flip side, though, like, how comfortable are you to tell people that you are deeply, deeply struggling? [00:54:40] Speaker A: I couldn't even tell myself, you know? [00:54:41] Speaker C: Like. Yeah. You couldn't even tell yourself. Right. So, like, you. You needed that break. You needed to step down, but then you have that same thought in your head, like, hey, like, nobody really knows exactly what I'm going through. So what's their opinion gonna be of me? [00:54:58] Speaker A: Yeah, here I go. [00:54:59] Speaker C: I'm stepping down. I need a break. [00:55:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:02] Speaker C: But people don't know that. And now, like, that's also weighing on you. [00:55:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:06] Speaker C: Sweet, Ryan. [00:55:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Thanks, man. [00:55:08] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:55:09] Speaker A: Cool. And it's not just that. [00:55:11] Speaker C: Not that people would do that, but. [00:55:12] Speaker A: No. And it's almost like you don't. You care less about what they think about you and more what you think of yourself. [00:55:17] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:55:19] Speaker B: But you do care about what other people think, right? Like, we all do. [00:55:24] Speaker A: Any care, I guess. [00:55:25] Speaker B: I guess. [00:55:26] Speaker A: Place on others. Yeah. [00:55:27] Speaker B: What. What Sam is saying, that just resonated with me was. Man, for people to actually know why I'm stepping down. I have to come. [00:55:35] Speaker C: You had to clean, right? [00:55:37] Speaker B: It's not, like, great. Ryan needs a mental wellness day, and then on Facebook, he's at brunch with Savannah. Like, cool. That's why I'm standing duty right now. So, like, I guess I can see that of, like. [00:55:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:48] Speaker B: I'm like, even if you knew you were ready, like, okay, I'm not ready for everyone to know. [00:55:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:54] Speaker B: Because I don't know what I'm really doing right now. [00:55:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And I saw it as a failure. Like, sam, you've known me for a long time, and. And not to implicate you in my crime, but, like, you've known that I've been going to therapy since, like, a long, long time. [00:56:07] Speaker C: Yeah, dude, I knew you were struggling with stuff in flight school? [00:56:09] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, in flight school is when I first started self harm. Like, I cut myself for the first time in flight school. [00:56:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:56:16] Speaker A: And. But then I stopped because I didn't want a flight dog to know, so I started using working out as a way of self harm. I'd go and swim as hard as I could for as long as I could, and then I go to the track and just run laps, and I wouldn't drink water until I would, like, almost pass out. And then I'd just go home and then do it again the next day. [00:56:36] Speaker C: Sweet. [00:56:38] Speaker A: And so, like, yeah, you've known that I haven't been well for a long time, so I saw it as a failure. I'm like, I'm the guy that goes to therapy. I'm the guy that fixes this. I'm the guy that has paid $25,000 of his own money to go to therapy over the last eight years to stay flying and to be flying well and to feel healthy for parts of it. And now I'm reaching a point where I can't fly anymore. Like, how have I failed? I'm doing everything right. I'm trying so hard. I'm in couples therapy. I'm in personal therapy. I'm like, I'm taking three day vacations to myself. Like, I'm doing all the right things. Like, why? What is happening to me? Why am I falling apart? And so there's that desperation. [00:57:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:57:24] Speaker A: Like, I was so desperate. [00:57:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:57:27] Speaker A: And so then I went to talk to the flight surgeon, and I didn't know what I was gonna say until the day of. I think I texted her, called both. [00:57:36] Speaker C: I remember. Yeah, I remember you going to. [00:57:39] Speaker A: And I didn't know what I was gonna say until in the moment. And as Commander Fulkerson. And I ended up just telling him everything, I was like, I feel like. I feel terrible. I don't know what's happening to me. I've been seeing a therapist forever for depression, anxiety. Like, don't know what's happened to me. I'm falling apart. I was, like, bawling, crying in his office. He showed me nothing but love. [00:58:10] Speaker B: It's awesome. [00:58:12] Speaker A: He was like. He's like, man, that's a. Like, you don't. I not only just. You don't have to hurt, but, like, I don't want you to be hurting like this. [00:58:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:58:25] Speaker A: He's like, the coast Guard's gonna be okay. The unit's gonna be okay. You're gonna be okay. Like, let's get you right. Let's get you on some meds. Let's. Let's sort this out. If we start medication, it's like a six month grounding. I'm gonna be here in six months. I'll get you a waiver. It's like, let's write a white paper together. You're the AOP success story for the guy that came back. [00:58:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:58:57] Speaker A: He said he's like, let's do this, and, man, that felt good. Yeah. Right. It felt terrifying because, like, exactly what Kenny was saying. I've, like, I'm grounded for six months. I'm that guy at the air station. Now I gotta tell everybody. Yeah. [00:59:12] Speaker C: Taking up space. [00:59:13] Speaker A: But the love, the acceptance, the, like, I hadn't admitted to myself that I was doing badly, and so for him to, like, accept me and be like, you're not doing well. Let's fix it. Like, I was overcome with emotion, with that love. [00:59:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:59:35] Speaker B: That's so heartwarming. And, like, gives me such, like, a positive outlook on this topic, because it is a. This is what everyone's talking about. [00:59:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:59:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:59:48] Speaker B: And it's a challenge that we need to face. And. And it's not just coast guard aviation. Right. [00:59:53] Speaker A: It's. [00:59:53] Speaker B: The entire industry is figuring out how do we handle this and how do we do it safely. [00:59:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Right. [00:59:59] Speaker C: It's been taboo for years, or at least that's how I feel about it. [01:00:02] Speaker A: Right. [01:00:03] Speaker C: Like, oh, you just can't talk about it. [01:00:05] Speaker A: I will say, like, I'm still, like, on this journey, and we got more to talk about because, you know, this is a story, but me getting help for my mental health has made me a better father, a better husband when I'm not, you know, jacked up, a better officer, a better human being, and a better pilot. Like, I am more emotionally intelligent. I am more emotionally capable. I am more. I have higher capacity for chaos, for compartmentalization. I have a higher capacity for all the things that make us good at our jobs. I'm better at it because of the work that I've done and the way that I understand myself. And I'm a better instructor because I know what my tendencies are and how I interact with the world. [01:00:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:00:55] Speaker A: I know, like, so much more about reading other people and understanding and empathizing with them, and so, like, I'm a better overall person because of the work that I've done. And so the fact that it's taboo, it's crazy because, like, it makes us better. [01:01:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:01:15] Speaker A: It's like, go for a run, and you are. Get healthier, right. [01:01:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:01:21] Speaker B: So that was kind of, you know, the flight doc's response to that. What about, like, airstay command? Savannah. [01:01:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Savannah was proud of me. She was loving and caring through that whole journey. She wanted me to do that. [01:01:43] Speaker B: How did you. Did you let everyone know? And how did you. In pieces. [01:01:47] Speaker A: Not everyone. And not everyone because of the next half of the story. [01:01:53] Speaker B: Okay. [01:01:54] Speaker A: I had started telling people, and they gave me so much great love. But once I had opened that box of, like, being me, right? Once, once I, like, opened those doors of compartmentalization, it all started to, like, happen really fast. And the next two weeks, like, were a blur. And it was actually, like, three weeks. Like, I got through office retirement. Things were great. Like, I was holding on and, like, starting to tell some people, and then I just, like, felt really incredibly anxious for, like, a whole week. Like, the knot in my chest, the uncomfort. Like, I was, like, on high alert for, like, a week. And we had another couples counseling session, and the therapist was like, man, you're not. Something's wrong with you right now. Like, you're not okay. And I immediately called my exo, and I was like, sir, like, all of this grounding stuff is hitting me weird. Like, it's Wednesday. Can I just come to work next Monday? Like, I need to drop some leave. Krugs is good to take some ops calls. I just need to, like, sort through some of this stuff. Nothing but love, right? There are wonderful people in this organization. [01:03:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:03:24] Speaker A: Like, the CEO Xo were just like, oh, man. Yeah, that, like, makes sense that that hit him sideways. Like, take a couple days, get your. Get your stuff together. Because I'm like, I got to call a bunch of psychiatrists and get. Find somebody that's like, dude, the hangman. A website. Like, I know, like, not trying to, like, just crap on people. Dude, he made a website. Was. I was calling doctor's offices. This guy died two years ago. Like, really? He's on the website, right? Like, what is happening? I'm calling all of these different offices to see who's still there, who's still taking insurance, who is accepting new patients, and the one that I finally found not even on the website. [01:04:06] Speaker C: Sweet. [01:04:07] Speaker A: And. But I had to spend 3 hours doing that legwork to find somebody that I could see soon. [01:04:15] Speaker C: That sounds about right for, as someone. [01:04:17] Speaker B: Who'S gone through a lot of medical stuff can confirm. [01:04:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:04:22] Speaker A: And so now, like, it was so, like, they got it. Cool, man. We'll see you on Monday. That, like, Saturday, Savannah took Mavis to a playdate, and I brought the dogs to, like, doggy daycare. Because I was like, let's just get them out of the house for a couple days. Like, one less thing on the plate. Red flag. If you're, like, send your dogs to the, like, the daycare because, like, that's a burger. Yeah, red flag. Something else going on. Had, like, a weird interaction. This, like, this old, old guys, like, dog got loose and chased Winnie, and she got out of the harness, was, like, running down the street. Cause she's, like, super skittish. And I was, like, pissed, and I was, like, yelling, and I was like. [01:05:09] Speaker B: I don't think I've ever heard you even, like, raise your voice. [01:05:12] Speaker A: I was screaming. [01:05:14] Speaker C: I can't picture that at all. [01:05:15] Speaker A: I was, like, screaming, right? Like, not okay. And I. Afterwards, I was like, I hated myself. [01:05:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:05:25] Speaker A: I was, like. I felt so uncomfortable. I felt such a. Like, I despised who I was and, like. And I'm ashamed to admit it. Like, I've yelled in the house before, like, gotten in arguments, like, not to this level of, like, screaming in a street, but, like, I've raised my voice when I didn't want to. And, like, that immediate shame and guilt and, like, self hate just poured over me. And I sat in the truck in the chick fil a parking lot, and there was, like, a. One of Savannah's hair elastics, those, like, nylon ones. They're, like, really thick. I started just snapping on the back of my hand over and over and over again until it, like, bruised. And that kind of, like, made me feel better. And I had used self harm in the past, and so I was like, oh, cool. That's, like, that's a good way to kill some anxiety. Made me feel better. [01:06:27] Speaker C: Healthy way to deal with it. [01:06:28] Speaker A: Healthy way to deal with it. It didn't really, like, bruise as bad the first day, but I did it again that night because I felt another surge of anxiety. And, like, it worked. And so I had this craving to hurt myself. And this craving had been building for the last, like, week or so of, like. Cause there's, like, a release in that. And so I, like, wanted to. I'd sat in the. When I was calling all those psychiatrists, I was sitting in the truck with a. With a pocket knife, the point just on my leg. And I was just, like, convincing myself not to just, like, push it deeper. The whole time that I was, like, talking to these. Call these different psychiatrists, everyone that, like, didn't answer, I, like, thought about just, like, cutting myself more. [01:07:15] Speaker B: That's scary. [01:07:17] Speaker A: Yeah. And. But I didn't think anything of it in the sense that I didn't think it was scary. I was just, like. I just. I just, like, wanted to feel pain. [01:07:26] Speaker B: Yeah, you wanted to feel. [01:07:28] Speaker A: Exactly. And I didn't want to feel the, like, anxiety and the, like, pain in my chest and my head. So we woke up the next morning, and the back of my hand was just, like, bruised, like, real bad. And Savannah saw it and immediately called a friend, and they took Mavis to their house. And Savannah, like, just looked at me. She's like, she called my therapist and was like, you need to talk to your therapist right now, because, like, that's not you. That's not okay. You can't. You can't be doing that to yourself. And I gave all the excuses. I minimized as much as I could. I was like, oh, it's fine. It's just like, a rubber band. Like, it's not like I slit my wrists. Like, I said all the, like, crappy things that you. You say, and, um. But I was feeling super, super anxious. Like, really spun up, and my chest was, like, starting to hurt. Like, ache with all the pent up anxiety. Um, I talked to the therapist and decided to go to the ER, and I had fought it all day long. So at this point. At this point, we're going to the ER, and it's 09:00 at night. Sweet. So we get Mavis out of bed, bring her to a friend's house, give her to them, and we drive to the Er. And EKG, because chest pains. Valium. Because they're like, you're having a panic attack, and you've been having one for a while now. Like, this is not cool. [01:09:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:16] Speaker A: So then they. The way that er works, you spend the whole night, and they finally got me out of the psychiatrist, who's like, cool. You're not a danger to yourself or others in the sense of, like, I don't think you're gonna kill yourself, so you can go home. And. So sweet. And I just went home. So the ER visit was to tell me that I wasn't. [01:09:38] Speaker C: You're okay. [01:09:39] Speaker A: I was okay. Go home. That's really helpful. Thank you. [01:09:43] Speaker B: Thanks for sharing all this, man. This is not easy stuff to talk about, so I appreciate. Thank you. [01:09:50] Speaker A: I'm like, you see me trembling over here? Yeah. [01:09:54] Speaker B: And if I'm going too deep in questions here. [01:09:57] Speaker A: Cannot go too deep with questions. The thing that Sam was saying. How do you help your friends ask the direct and deep questions? [01:10:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess, you know. Did they ask you questions? [01:10:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:11] Speaker B: Okay. [01:10:12] Speaker A: I maxed out the, like, depression, anxiety. Like, there's, like, a standard form, like, a standard questionnaire. I think I've taken it, like, 17 times over the last couple months. [01:10:22] Speaker B: Okay. [01:10:23] Speaker A: And the impetus, the decision for actually going to the ER was because I had started to have suicidal thoughts too. [01:10:32] Speaker C: Okay. [01:10:33] Speaker B: Cause that was gonna be my question is, you got there, and they're like, nah, I don't think you're gonna kill yourself. Like, were you thinking about killing yourself? [01:10:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I was. They were, like, passive suicidal thoughts. Like, what if I just killed myself? And then the thoughts turned into, like, I hate myself so much, and then the thoughts turned into, I am hurting the people around me. Like, I am making their lives miserable. They're better off without me. How about I just move out? Like, I was thinking about just moving out to remove myself from my family because I hated myself so much that I thought that they'd be better off without me. [01:11:15] Speaker B: When you say move out, like, physically move out of the house or just. [01:11:18] Speaker A: Like, move out of the house, not because I didn't love Savannah. I wanted to be in a relationship. I wanted to be in a family. But, like, I thought that I was. I thought it was better for them to be without me. [01:11:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:11:29] Speaker A: And so that turned into, like, well, that sounds really sad now I'm alone. So then it's like, okay, well, I'm just always gonna be sad. I'm always gonna feel this way. I've done all of the work. I've gone to therapy. I'm doing everything I can. [01:11:45] Speaker C: This is just me. [01:11:47] Speaker A: Nothing's working. This is just me, who I am, and it will never get better. And then I laid in bed one night. This was the night before the self harm or, like, two nights before I laid in bed, and I was thinking about how I would kill myself. And then. And we don't keep weapons in the house. I've never owned guns because I've been to therapy, and I have never trusted myself. Can't park our car in our garage. We don't have guns, and we don't really have any substantive pills. Right. Like, it would be hard. You'd have to put in a lot of effort, and, like, I've done that on purpose because I've never trusted myself on that level. But then I was laying in bed that night, and I. I was trying to think to myself that my daughter would be better off without me, that she was young enough, that if I died, she wouldn't even remember me. And I started writing a suicide note in my head. To her of, like, I want her to forgive me. I want her to, like, remember me as a good person and, like, I want her to forgive me. Does she even need to forgive me? I'll be gone anyway. Like, would it be better? Savannah just said that I died. Like, what lies do you tell her? So I, like, went down that rabbit hole, like, all night, and I didn't really sleep. I think I had to go into work the next day for something. [01:13:39] Speaker C: You had to go to work the next day? God damn it. [01:13:46] Speaker A: So I was, like, at work. I was in the locker room, just. [01:13:49] Speaker C: Like, I got so many allergies going on over. [01:13:53] Speaker B: It sounds like you're laughing to me. [01:13:54] Speaker C: I just. That just set me off. Dude, you're just telling the most serious story. I gotta go to work. [01:14:01] Speaker A: Yeah. I was, like, at work doing something dumb, I think I, like, had to have an FEP meeting or something, man. And I was, like. I was just not feeling good. I was, like, crying in the locker room and then just, like, sucking it up and walking back out and putting on the face. [01:14:18] Speaker B: And Mark Ryan showed up to the. [01:14:21] Speaker A: Showed up to the Feb meeting. And so, yeah, I end up at the erde, cause suicidal thoughts, self harm, like, and then you made that decision to go to the ER? [01:14:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:14:40] Speaker A: Yes. [01:14:40] Speaker B: Okay. [01:14:41] Speaker A: With heavy prodding from my therapist in Savannah. [01:14:45] Speaker B: Okay. [01:14:46] Speaker A: Which, again, man, I would not be here if it wasn't for Savannah. The things that she did. And it was, like, all of this, like, hugely traumatic for her, right? Like, to have someone you love going through this, like, and she's doing all the right things. She's asking the right questions. She's calling my therapist when she feels, like, out of control. And, like, she can't help. Like, she's helping me call my exo to ask for time off, like, all of the stuff, right. And driving me to the ER at 11:00 at night, dropping our kid off at a friend's house. It's all traumatic for a spouse. And, um, I was able to get a psychiatrist appointment for, like, that next Wednesday, which was awesome. And the ER doctor, she gave me some, like, anxiety pills to take, and that, like, helped take the edge off for the next couple days. And, like, having the psychiatrist appointment, like, confirmed really helped, um, like, my mindset because they moved the date up on me, which was helpful. And so then I got met with a psychiatrist. She put me on a bunch of meds. I told her my whole story, and then I started meds. And the first weekend was awesome. My parents came into town, watched Mavis Savannah and I went into Houston and, like, got a hotel. And the first week of beds, I, like, I felt alive. It was amazing. I was like, oh, whoa. This is like, this is cool. This is freedom. [01:16:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:16:21] Speaker A: Like, let's go. And then Monday rolled around and I tanked. I didn't leave the couch for, like, three days. I watched the entire lord of the Rings extended edition and the Hobbit over three days. [01:16:37] Speaker C: All of it actually sounds great. [01:16:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Sorry. Not for the reason you're doing it. Not for the reason you're doing it. You gotta rewatch those at some point. [01:16:44] Speaker C: I watch them. [01:16:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Maybe not the hobbit ones, but, like. So I, like, tanked and I felt like crap. Didn't do anything around the house. I, like, bare minimum, right? Keeping. Keeping life together. And then that Wednesday night, I was laying in bed and it reminded me, no, Wednesday night was my birthday. Wednesday was my birthday. Celebrating, had we an ice cream cake, as is tradition. [01:17:14] Speaker B: Did Mavis sing happy birthday? [01:17:16] Speaker A: She did, yeah. She. I'm sure she now says happy birthday to everybody. [01:17:21] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [01:17:21] Speaker A: Yeah. And triangles are happy birthdays, not triangles. [01:17:26] Speaker B: I don't think I follow that, but, okay. [01:17:28] Speaker A: We had her, instead of wearing a hat, she was holding a triangle on her head. [01:17:32] Speaker B: Gotcha. [01:17:32] Speaker A: As a birthday hat. And so now every time she sees a triangle, she holds it on her head and says, happy birthday. [01:17:39] Speaker B: That's awesome. [01:17:40] Speaker A: So, yeah, Wednesday was my birthday. And then Thursday, I, um. I was laying in bed and started having chest pains. Like, really bad chest pains. I was, like, twice a minute. I would feel for like a couple seconds, like. Like someone was stabbing me in the heart and I thought I was, like, having a heart attack and dying. Um, and this is again, like 1030 at night. So we packed Mavis up again. [01:18:12] Speaker C: Sweet. [01:18:12] Speaker A: And drove me to the ER. That's right next to our house this time because I didn't want to go to the other one because it's too far away. Savannah literally just dropped me off of the ER so that she could go, like, put Mavis back down. And I walk in and they're like, yeah, we don't take Tricare. What? Like, yeah, okay. You take a credit card and she's like, yeah, I mean, an EKG and stuff. Like, it's probably gonna be like fifteen hundred dollars. And I was like, I think I'm dying right now. Can you take this credit card and just tell me if I'm not dying? [01:18:54] Speaker C: Wow, dude. [01:18:56] Speaker A: And so she took the credit card and I went to the back, and this time they, like, gave me, like, a liquid something. And the ER doctor came to me, and she's like, this is a panic attack. Like, your body is, like, shutting down right now. And so now I'd been to the ER twice in two weeks. And the next day, Savannah called Commander Fulkerson, and he talked to me and was like, man, like, you're really not okay. And then I talked to the flight docs at Houston, and at this point, like, I refused to talk to them. Savannah, like, I was forcing her to be the middleman again. Like, huge kudos to her, but, like, to put her in that situation is, like, brutal. [01:19:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:19:52] Speaker A: Cause, like, I didn't want to talk to anybody about this because I was so mad, so ashamed. So, like, I hated myself for. For being this way. [01:20:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:20:02] Speaker A: And, like, I didn't know what to do or what was hurting me. And then Savannah basically, like, we got in, like, a fight on Friday, and she said, you need to go figure this out. I don't know what's happening to you. It's scaring the crap out of me, and I don't want to lose you. You have to go figure this out. So I spent the night at a friend's house. I called. Actually, Savannah called one of the other pilots, and they came, picked me up. I spent the night at their house, and the next day, my dad flew down short notice, and drove me to San Antonio. And I checked into a mental health inpatient facility in San Antonio on that Sunday. [01:20:55] Speaker B: So was it Savannah? Like, hey, you need to figure this out. Is what made you come to that conclusion? Was there some other trigger that was like, okay. [01:21:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I was still fighting it. I checked into the place because the person I cared about wanted me to. [01:21:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:21:10] Speaker A: I. I was still fighting it. I didn't want to. [01:21:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:21:14] Speaker A: Um. Yeah. So I checked in, and, uh, it's a hospital. They cut all the cords off my drawstrings. They took away anything possibly sharp. Took, like, my sneakers, locked them away in the closet. [01:21:31] Speaker C: You didn't wear sneakers, dude? [01:21:33] Speaker A: Nope. Laces. The entire place was set up in a way that, like, you cannot hurt yourself. Like, the bathroom door wasn't even a full door. It was, like, a half stall window. [01:21:43] Speaker C: How did that make you feel? [01:21:45] Speaker A: I felt, like, pretty ashamed. And I felt pretty, like, emasculated isn't the right word. I felt like. I felt like a child. I felt like I was not trusted to be a human being. [01:22:00] Speaker C: Okay. Yeah. So you got checked into the mental facility. [01:22:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:22:10] Speaker C: How did you feel about that? [01:22:14] Speaker A: All of the friends that I made there described the first four days of me being there as we thought you were the serial killer in the back of the room that was just gonna like go crazy. [01:22:27] Speaker C: Really? [01:22:27] Speaker A: I was just like, hood on, head down in a corner, not talking to anybody. I was pissed. [01:22:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:22:35] Speaker A: I was like, why am I here? What's wrong with me? I'm at this place. Like, I hate myself. Like, this is garbage. I'm just gonna. I'm like, whatever. I'll just like do what they say and leave early because it's such. That meant the military mindset, right? Just like, I'll fall in line, I'll just leave. So for the first like couple days, I was just like that lunatic in the corner that just didn't want to talk to anybody. Yeah, it was really hard being there at first. And what was it like? [01:23:08] Speaker C: What did you do? [01:23:08] Speaker A: Like, oh, like the day. So it's a lot of nothing. [01:23:13] Speaker C: Okay. [01:23:14] Speaker A: Yeah, it's designed to be nothing for a reason. Like the way those facilities work, not just because of like the therapy and the groups. And it removes you from society in a way that you need to be removed for yourself. No phones. You get your phone for 30 minutes in the morning and then 3 hours a night, you wake up at seven in the morning, meet with a psychiatrist, grab breakfast and then have an hour of you time to journal or read or. I read a lot of books. I also wrote two grad school essays. Got an a in that class while being crazy. And then you have like a psyched class. It's all military patients. So they have like different wings and then they have different groups for different problems that people are facing. So they have groups for like civilian based trauma people that had difficult childhoods or like interactions with outside the military that were index traumas or just like overtime traumas. They had a military sexual trauma group for people that were suffering from that. They had a. They called it deployment trauma or war room of people that were struggling with service related, like index traumas. So you had like combat guys, spec ops guys, pilots, everybody, like from just anybody that had seen things is basically a service related, like moral injury group. And then, so those were like the main groups. And then you also had individual therapy twice a week. And they specialize in like CBT and DBT, cognitive behavioral therapy, and like dialectical behavioral therapy. And you did art, they made you work out. It was from 07:00 a.m. until 630. I was just working on myself in one way or the other. And then I'd get my phone from, like, 630 to 930. I ended up modifying my phone time so I could, like, talk to Mavis when she wasn't asleep. And then they got you on, like, a medication regimen. You met with a doctor, like, every day, and so you just started, like, working on yourself. And one of the first assignments they give you is just journal about your life, tell a life story. And so you did that. Talked to a therapist. My buddy won the lottery for master's tickets, and it's a 28 day program, and the master's was, like, 21, 23 days away. So one of the first questions I said in my therapist, like, yeah, so, like. And this was after I'd gone through my psychopath phase of, like, my emo phase, I should call it. And I was like, cool. So, like, I'm not really that bad. I wasn't really hurting myself that bad. Like, I was riding a burnout. Like, I'm not flying anymore. It's like, I'll be fine. 21 days. I got masters tickets. So, like, how would I duck out of here and go to that? And she's like, okay, we'll see how you feel. And then, yeah, so started doing therapy, and the first weekend I was in war room, which, again, I think I texted you guys after my first war room. [01:26:56] Speaker C: You felt like an imposter. [01:26:57] Speaker A: Yeah, because I felt like an imposter. I was like, this guy just told the story. That's insane. Like, I'm a. Nobody felt like an imposter. And I was, like, mad at myself. I was like, why am I here? Why am I hurting for, like, nothing? And I was like, I'm only in this group. Cause, like, I mentioned one of those Sar cases, right, to my therapist, and she was also just, like, sign him up for everything. Then I was in another war room group, and we talked about, like, moral injury, and we were talking about it, and I was starting to, like, replay a lot of the old sar cases in my head. And over the next, like, 45 minutes, I got, like, a little bit hot and sweaty, so I took my sweater off, and then I, like, started feeling, like, still really warm. And so, like, I just walked out of the room, and as soon as I walked out of the room, I was like, I really don't feel good. And, like, they. They have to unlock all the public bathrooms, right? Cause, like, they don't want you to, like, lock yourself in a bathroom. So I, like, got somebody to unlock a bathroom. And I went in, and I just puked and talked to my therapist the next day. I was like, so that's weird. Like, must have had, like, some weird nachos, man. [01:28:09] Speaker C: Definitely. [01:28:10] Speaker A: That was the nachos. [01:28:11] Speaker C: Definitely not just. [01:28:14] Speaker A: And then we had another group where we talked about, like, nightmares and something that I've struggled with a lot in the past. And I had kept talking to my therapist, like, yeah, I only have, like, a couple nightmares a month. Like, it's not really that much. And she's like, yeah, but when you have them, it, like, ruins your next day. [01:28:33] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:28:34] Speaker A: And then we started talking to the therapist the other in class about nightmares and how, like, it's also, like, disruptive of sleep. And I kept. I would wake up in the middle of the night, and I'd, like, sweat through the sheets, and she's like, yeah, that's also a sign of nightmares that you just don't remember because your body goes into fight or flight mode and doesn't get rest. And then talking about lack of sleep and sleep struggles, and that's when I tried a sleeping pill for the first time. And, yeah, my blood pressure went down 15 points in five days of taking. In the first five days of taking sleeping pills, just in. [01:29:19] Speaker B: Better rest. [01:29:19] Speaker A: Better rest. Yeah. And, like, looking back, I, like, was curious. So I had worn my, like, a Garmin watch a couple times just to see how I was doing. And, like, I scrolled back to, there's a week. It was, like, the. Like, the third week of December. There's, like, a nine. A nine day period where I wore my watch for that nine day stretch. I do, like, once or twice in that stretch, and I got 30 minutes of deep sleep over the whole nine. [01:29:51] Speaker C: Days, which is exactly the amount of deep sleep you want, probably. [01:29:56] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, the Garmin watch is, like, super accurate and stuff like that. Sure. But I've been wearing it now since being back. And, like, on sleeping pills, I get an hour to an hour and a half every night. [01:30:07] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:30:08] Speaker A: On my watch. So, like, regardless of its accuracy, like. [01:30:11] Speaker B: Trends are there by a magnitude of 30. Still not good. [01:30:16] Speaker A: Still not good. [01:30:18] Speaker C: So, how long. How long you were in El Paso? [01:30:21] Speaker A: You said San Antonio. [01:30:23] Speaker C: Totally nailed it. So you're in El Paso. Sorry. Uh, how long were you an inpatient? And. [01:30:29] Speaker A: Yeah, it was a 28 day program. [01:30:31] Speaker C: Okay. [01:30:32] Speaker A: And I graduated in 45 days. [01:30:34] Speaker B: So how was the masters? [01:30:36] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Um, how did. [01:30:40] Speaker C: How did you feel? I mean, like, we can talk more about being in there, but, like, did you leave feeling better? Like, was it. [01:30:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:30:48] Speaker C: Was it what you needed? Was it hard? [01:30:50] Speaker A: Was it good? Was it a about. So, week two, I was having a therapy session. This was, like, after I threw up, after I had the class on nightmares, after I started taking sleeping pills. I was sitting down with my therapist, and I was, like, I was starting to buy into the program. I was starting to do all the reading. I was starting to. She's giving me all these books, and I felt like I was reading an autobiography, reading this psychology book about myself or about what was bothering me. And I started resonating with some of the war room groups and stuff. And she sat me down because I was like, hey. I was starting to, like, minimize again a little bit. I was like, this stuff is good. Like, I'm glad I'm doing the work, but, like, I don't know that. Like, I'm feeling like, an imposter in some of these groups and, like, I don't know that this stuff's really bothering me. And, like. Like, I was just having, like, passive suicidal thoughts, right? And I, like, I cut myself, but I only cut myself a little bit. I forgot that part of the story may or may not. Like, taking a razor blade in my arm the Friday before going to inpatient. That's why I spent the night at a friend's house, because Savannah was like, man, I love you, but, like, you can't have you doing this in the house. Like, I got a two year old to take care of. I can't be, like, afraid for you, too. So tons of shame there for that. Like, putting her through that. But. So I was telling this to my therapist, and she looked at me, and she said, and this, like, sentence has changed my life. She said that suicide is often not premeditated, but it's more often passive suicidal thoughts and five minutes of panic. And I have felt that panic before, and I've had those thoughts before, and I've been in those, like, deep, dark swirls of your mind where you just think that terrible things about yourself and you're drowning, and you really don't think that you'll ever have any way of surviving and that nothing has to feel better than this, right? And, like, I can't believe I said that to her or to them or I can't believe I did this. Or, like, why is this hurting me? I am hurting everyone else because of just being me. Like, putting on a face was better. Like, when I unpacked all of this stuff, I just got worse. And I am just, like, it's all falling apart, and I can't do this. And passive suicidal thoughts and five minutes of panic. [01:33:56] Speaker C: Like, that's crazy. [01:33:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Looking back, I was pretty close to dying. [01:34:05] Speaker C: Yeah, I remember when you texted me that, and I completely broke down in tears because I couldn't think about you doing that to yourself because, I mean, you mean a lot to a lot of people, Ryan. And I think to think about somebody, like, it doesn't matter in this context or if it's in, like, another context. Like, and I think that's probably hard for somebody who's going through that or maybe impossible for that person to think about what other people think. [01:34:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:34:42] Speaker C: But, like, at the other side of the spectrum, like, man, we love you. We care about you a lot. And when you sent that, I was just like, man, what can I do? Like, how do I help? How, like, how do I tell you that? Like, I love you. You're worth it. You're okay. Like, exactly who you are. Like, that is okay. Like, that's enough. And, like, I don't know. I'm rambling now, but, like, it's. It's hard to tell somebody that who's feeling that in that instance, and, like, what you went through is just. Is really hard. And, like, I. Yeah. Anyways, so. [01:35:24] Speaker B: And we're glad you're here. [01:35:25] Speaker C: Yeah. And we're really happy you're here, man. [01:35:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:35:27] Speaker C: We're really, really glad you're here. Yeah. [01:35:31] Speaker A: Falling now. [01:35:32] Speaker C: Yeah. No, that's good, dude. I mean, I think that's important. Yeah. [01:35:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:35:36] Speaker C: So therapy was easy, and the allergies. [01:35:40] Speaker A: Are strong, but, uh, well, I did the, uh. So, 45 day program. Okay, 20 day program in 45 days. But I did it Ryan van Dehy style. Within the first week and a half, I was meeting with the director to complain about things and writing white papers of how they should fix their program. And I was holding. I was hosting my own group therapy sessions in the courtyard because I wanted to fill up more time with therapy. And I read five different books. [01:36:09] Speaker B: I heard you had a nickname. [01:36:11] Speaker A: What was my. [01:36:12] Speaker B: The professor. [01:36:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:36:15] Speaker B: You sent me a text, so they're calling me the professor because I'm teaching everyone how good I am about therapy. [01:36:22] Speaker A: Like, guys, I've been in therapy a long time. I also just, like, I have a passion for, like, talking about this stuff, and I genuinely love, like, hearing people's stories because everyone is so fascinating and unique, and pain is pain, and, like, people have felt pain on such a variety of a spectrum, and it's so easy to diminish your own pain or hurt or story and everyone. Everyone's story that I've ever heard regarding, like, mental health or their journey through life is so fascinating. The human experience is so complex. [01:37:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:37:00] Speaker A: And it's full of so many moments that can hurt, a and they can be happy. And, like, I loved hearing these stories and talking to them about it. [01:37:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:37:11] Speaker A: Yeah. So, as a professor. [01:37:13] Speaker B: Yeah. And I know you shared another thing of. You talked about feeling like you were imposter. [01:37:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:37:19] Speaker B: And then you had one of those guys that had been in war been shot at and seen people die that were close to him. And not that you needed validation, but him recognizing you're like, dude, that's some heavy stuff you're going through. [01:37:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:37:38] Speaker B: Kind of helped you. And I thought that was just a. You know, you talked about weird, fascinating things about people's stories, how someone like that can look and be like, wow. [01:37:48] Speaker A: Yeah. So I. Yeah, there was a day. So I shared twice in two of the groups. Um, I shared a lot of the civilian, like, trauma stuff that, um, we don't really need to go into here. Um, and I also shared in the war room about the SAR cases because I had those two in Humboldt, but then I had two more in Houston that kind of messed with me. Um, one was. Showed up in the middle of the night. It was a wreck boat accident. And we got on scene, and the two people, like, they had been ejected from the boat going high speeds, so we didn't pick anybody up, but just, like, sat in a hover with the searchlight over there to guide the boat in. And my dad's a big boater, and I called it the next day, and I was like. Because I just couldn't. Like, I was, like. I couldn't get him out of my head, seeing them in the water. And then I had another one, and these were, like, back to back, the one that I told in the PTSD episode, looking for the father and the mom and the daughter on the beach. So, in the second week of me being at the inpatient, there had been some conflict because, like I said, I was trying to shift my phone time around so I could talk to Mavis, and there was, like, a miscommunication with some of the nurses, and, like, I was missing bedtime, and, like, I was. I was, like, not feeling great and, like, missing them pretty bad. And I hadn't been able to talk to Mavis in, like, a few days, and so, like, there's just that pent up conflict. And I was laying in bed that night, like, I'd been feeling pretty anxious all day, so, like, they had checked my blood pressure that day, and it was, like, 150 56 over something that I had already been on sleeping pills. So, like, that was, like, not good. Like, you don't look bad. Yeah, I'm like, that's where you're trained is like, don't look bad. Just feel bad. But anyway, so, like, I was laying in bed, and. And I started to, like, hear my daughter, like, say my name. Say dada. Dada. And then I started, like, seeing all of the, like, all of those dads that I hadn't saved and all the people, and, like, death was just, like, there in my eyes, and I was just, like, I would hear her voice, then I would see an image. And I would hear her voice. I'd see an image. And I was like. And I was pissed at myself. I was like, why are you doing this to yourself? Do you hate yourself so much that you're doing this to yourself? So, you know that makes it worse. [01:40:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:40:36] Speaker A: And so, like, I finally calmed down a little bit, and I went out to the nurses station to, like, I was, like, like, kind of, like, trembling. Like, I was, like, I was, like, a three year old that had a nightmare. Like, I was trembling and shaking and just, like, whispering. I'm like, hey, can you, like, give me a hand real quick? And I, like, went back to my room with this nurse tech, joe, who's, like, greatest human on the planet, and he's like, yeah, hey, man, what's going on? And I, like, started to say what was happening? And I broke, and I went right back to that place where I was seeing all those images, and I was hearing her voice, and I was just like. And I was on the floor, just panic crying, just, like, snot coming out of my nose, like, tears everywhere, and I lost it. And. And he held my hand, and he just kept saying to me, ryan, you're here, and you're safe. You're loved. You're safe. You're here in San Antonio. Like, this is where you're at. And it took me, like, a little bit, but I finally got out of that. Then they gave me some medication that just knocked me out of my butt for 24 hours. But, uh, so I talked to my therapist about that one, like, the next time we had a chance, and I was like, why do I do that to myself? Like, why am I hurting myself? Like, why would I just start thinking about that stuff? And why would I start, like, correlating that? Like, that? That doesn't even make sense. Why would I do that to myself? And she looked at me again with another great one liner of, like, you can't. You can't give yourself a panic attack. She's like, unless you, like, really, really tried, and you're, like, triggering yourself on purpose. She's like, no, that's not what happened. And that was the moment that I realized that a lot of the sarcase stuff had been buried in the bottom of my soul. And I just had. I wasn't addressing it for so long. And then now that I was a dad and me, like, thinking about killing myself and, like, I'm. I didn't want to die. I didn't want to kill myself. I was afraid of dying. And I was starting to, like, correlate that with the bodies, with the people, with the water, with everything. And so I just started to, like, understand that, like, wow, the PTSD, those index traumas were, like, actually affecting me. [01:43:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:43:16] Speaker A: And so that's why I ended up sharing in the war room group. And so, yeah, when I told these two stories completely, like, I just let it all out there, right? And we don't need to go down that dark rabbit hole here. But, like, I told the two full stories, and, like, that's the PTSD one or the work trauma one. And afterwards, big marine multiple tours over there. I've heard his story. And. Yep. And he came up to me and he was crying. He just gives me this huge hug, and he's like, got tears. He's like, I've seen some of this shit, and some of that stuff broke me. He's like, I. Like, I had friendships, and because I, like, couldn't handle that stuff. And just, like, his love and acceptance was like, yeah, that imposter syndrome. I immediately realized in that moment of, like, it helped to get that validation from him who had seen that, but it helped me realize that just pain is pain. And that, like, vulnerability begets vulnerability. Direct and deep questions get people to give you the answers that they. They so desperately want. People want you to ask those questions and more, so they want you to stay for the answer if they believe you'll stay for the answer, and if they genuinely hear you asking the question. [01:44:49] Speaker B: So good. [01:44:50] Speaker A: That's how you do it. [01:44:51] Speaker B: Yeah, so good. [01:44:54] Speaker C: Obviously, we are post, you know, 28 days into 45 days or. Yeah, 25 days, 40 days. So how do you feel now? Was it helpful? Did the coast guard give you what you needed? [01:45:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I haven't logged into a workstation since the beginning of March, and the coast guard sent me to this facility, fully paid for by insurance. And then when I came back, I did. Or I'm doing a. An outpatient program in Houston to, like, reorient with life. When I came out, like, people were overwhelmed. I went to the grocery store, and there's, like, too many people, and I just walked out. Yeah. But it was what I needed. I unpacked traumas that I had been holding onto and not addressing for so long that I didn't even know that they were bothering me, but they were filling my cup up, so, like, my capacity was so, like, little my. I was, like, holding on by thread, and so it helped me to, like, punch a hole in the bottom of that bucket and start addressing that stuff. So I left healthier but hurting more. [01:46:16] Speaker C: Okay. [01:46:17] Speaker A: My nightmares have increased. The negative imagery has increased. The anxiety is. Rather than burying it, I, like, am working to address it in the moment, which means that I'm paying more attention to it. So I'm hurting more, but I'm healthier than I have been in probably my whole life. [01:46:40] Speaker C: Okay? [01:46:41] Speaker A: I'm streaking together. Good days, good weeks. I'm sleeping better. I'm a better dad, better husband, but I'm still, like, they don't heal you. They help you to, like, rip out all of the, like, scar tissue and dig out the festering wound. [01:47:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:47:06] Speaker A: And then they try to give you the tools to have you heal when you get out. [01:47:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:47:12] Speaker A: And so that's, like. That's where I'm at now. Like. And I didn't realize, like. But the signs were there. Like, I told the story in the PTSD episode, right. And, like, it's funny. We recorded that episode, like, in the middle of, like. Right. That was, like, five days before I went to the ER the first time. [01:47:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:47:33] Speaker A: And so, like, I was holding it together, right. But, like, the story of when we went to Connecticut and I was having nightmares. Cause I was just. I kept seeing my daughter go into the water and, like, not being able to save her, and, like, it's the dad that always dies in my head, right. Of, like. Or I can't control it, and, like, I'm out of control and I can't save her. And so the. The flags were there, the signs were there that this stuff was bothering me, but I kept just attributing it to something else. Oh, I've been saying a lot of duty. I'm just burnt out. Oh, it's just like. Man, it's just like, being on the boat, like. Yeah, no, that's, like, I'm just a little stressed out because on this trip, you know, like, it makes sense. I'm a dad I don't want my daughter to, like, drown. Sure, yeah. Like, oh, nightmares. Like, ah, man. Like, it's probably just, like, I had a beer with my dad, and, like, probably just not feeling great. Like, fighting with Savannah. Like, oh, like, yeah, you just, like, the dogs. The dogs were bothering me. You make up these dumb excuses, right. And, like. But all of the flags were there, and all of the, like, signs were there. You're just, like, in the moment. It's so hard to pay attention to that, but, yeah. How am I doing now? Healthier, but hurting a lot. [01:48:52] Speaker C: If you could go back to Humboldt Ryan or flight school Ryan? [01:48:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:48:59] Speaker C: Or somebody at the initial stages of some sort of mental health crisis, or they just, you know, they're. Maybe it's not a crisis yet. It's just like, hey, something's going on. Like, something doesn't feel right. What would you have changed in that point? Like, what would you tell yourself then to do? Because you obviously were getting help. You were addressing. [01:49:19] Speaker A: I did all the right things. Yeah. And it, like, kept me going forever. Those. Those times in my life. I did it right. [01:49:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:49:27] Speaker A: I think that it's unfortunate that I didn't feel safe to come out to the organization. [01:49:33] Speaker C: Okay. [01:49:35] Speaker A: I think the advice that I would tell myself and Kenny, you can, like, you worded this really well the other day, but, like, the advice that I would tell myself is just get help. And flying is important, and it's awesome, and we want to do it, but, like, get help. And I think that the organization is changing in a way that is offering more help early. Like, we can go to therapy. Like, I know pilots that can go to therapy openly. [01:50:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:50:12] Speaker A: Like, it exists. I think back then the culture was different. Those cases that I went on. Slap in the butt. Good game. You good, man. Like, yeah, the stand duty. Right? So, like, scism, I guess, didn't get scism for any of those cases and. Cause some of them, like, were innocuous, like the one on the beach. But I would just be get help and stop worrying about the career consequences and worry about you. Just fix yourself, because the job will be here. And I genuinely feel like there are enough options for people in the organization to get help and still fly. I like that. [01:51:03] Speaker C: I like that a lot. [01:51:04] Speaker A: But do it early. Thinking about it, like, just talk to somebody, and I don't want to put words in Commander Fulkerson's mouth, but, like, the organization was extremely supportive. [01:51:23] Speaker B: Well, I think I actually would love to do a part two of this episode to talk about a lot of the things that are being discussed to help people like you. And I know that the three of us have been talking about, should we do this podcast? Is that the right thing to do? I don't know. Maybe we won't even air it. But I think, at the end of the day, we wanted to put it out there. Ryan was willing to be vulnerable to put it out there, because I'd be willing to bet that there are people out there that are, you know, on the scale of, you know, mental health or people that are on the far left of, like, oh, man. Some of those early things Ryan was talking about kind of resonate with me. [01:52:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:52:12] Speaker B: Huh. Maybe I need to look into that. And there are probably people that are far worse than you that have learned how to cope and deal with it. So they look like a Sam Haffensteiner, and they're smiley, and they're happy, and they help everyone, but inside, they're dying. [01:52:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:52:28] Speaker B: And our. And hopefully, you know, someone can. Can listen to this and say, oh, my God, I'm in trouble. I'm drowning, and I need help, and I need to get my priorities, and maybe I risk flying. [01:52:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:52:46] Speaker B: But that's not the most important thing in life. [01:52:49] Speaker A: Living is. [01:52:50] Speaker B: Yeah. So I. That. I think that's why. That's why we did it. And. [01:52:55] Speaker A: And, like, I, um. When I got help and Humboldt, like, it made me a better person, a better pilot. Like, Kenny, I met you, like, in a peak of health, and, like, you can describe me then, but, like, it made me a better person and a better pilot. Yeah. Because I got help. I'm also, like, extremely grateful for the efforts of the people in my life. Like, the command. Amazing, right? Commander Jacobs and Commander Creech, Commander Connor, like, right before he retired. Like, I mean, they were asking the right questions. They helped me to get the help that I needed. The unit was supportive, the people, the flight dock. Like, talking to Commander Fulkerson, like, he was amazing and gave me that love that I needed. Like, talking to you guys, one of the things that I've learned is just, like, just talk about it, because I think it's less scary than we like to believe. It's scary as shit, but, like, it's less scary than we think. And by talking about it early and often, you don't get to those places, and you get the help early that you need, and you address it early. And by making it not taboo, then we can all still fly and just be better people for it. [01:54:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:54:30] Speaker C: I mean. Question for both you guys. Do you think there's still a stigma about mental health in coast guard aviation or coast guard. Like, is it a thing that is openly welcome to be discussed and talked about and brought forward, or is it a, hey, like, look, I'm going to get, if I bring this up, I'm going med down and I'm out and I'm going to let people down. You know, that's an extreme, but like. [01:54:59] Speaker A: No, but that's how I felt. [01:55:00] Speaker C: But where are we right now? Where do you guys think we actually are? As in aviation organization? [01:55:06] Speaker B: I think there's kind of two big pieces to that question. One is, like, actual policy and what FAA is saying and what's acceptable. And then the, like, okay, just as an organization, are we okay just talking about it? Is it okay? I think the organization getting significantly better? Okay, much, much better. I think we're moving in the right direction and I think we could get into a lot more. Like I said, I think we should do a part two because there's things of like, okay, what is the policy? And then how is that policy actually instituted? Is it standardized? Is the person in humble going to get the same response as someone in Cape Cod? Yeah, there's. There's always been a fear of going to any flight doc. [01:55:54] Speaker A: Right. [01:55:54] Speaker B: Whether it's back pain or a mental health issue. [01:55:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:55:58] Speaker B: And so I think that is really one of the things that people would like to see some clarity on. [01:56:08] Speaker C: What got me really excited was flying yesterday with you and our flight mech, who had gone to Wai, went to their mental health session and said that in a 15 minutes session, so many people were interested in asking questions that they had to cut it off at 1 hour and 45 minutes. They're like, okay, we have no more time for this. We blocked 15 minutes and we have, I don't know how many multiples have gone over the amount of time. Like, and people were raising their hands, they're asking questions. Like, it is. It's clearly a thing. And I think it's. It's exciting and it's important. And, you know, I think we are on a track to getting into a better spot. [01:56:51] Speaker A: Almost every human being has moments of being depressed, right? So, like, regardless of it being a season, a disease index, traumas or PTSD, like panic attacks, anxiety, like, what? Regardless of the spectrum, everybody on the planet has moments in their life that they need help. [01:57:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:57:18] Speaker A: Like, that's just the answer of, like, and I, like, think that so many, like, those conversations blow up in those conferences because it's one. It's one meeting. It's one opportunity. Like, more conversations like this, when you let something fester under the surface, it's gonna explode. [01:57:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:57:40] Speaker A: But if you just talk about it early and often and make it part of the culture, then we're just better for it. And I think that there is gonna be a. A difficult time in the next, like, few years because it's gonna, like, look like it's increasing, but I think that's not that mental health is degrading. It's more that the reporting is increasing. Right, right. It's like, the safety curve that they show you with. [01:58:08] Speaker B: Like, the more the better. [01:58:09] Speaker A: The more the better. Right. Like, let's talk about it and let's fix it early, because, like, man, don't. It got out of control for me so fast. Yeah, so fast. I like to think that I'm a smart and capable person who cares about mental health. I've been getting therapy forever. It went downhill so fast, and I was so out of control. [01:58:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:58:32] Speaker C: I mean, I. I applaud you, and I'm just at awe at your ability to be open about this subject. And I'm curious, like, how does it feel to just talk about this, to feel good? [01:58:50] Speaker A: Does it feel good? [01:58:51] Speaker C: Does it feel, like, terrifying? [01:58:54] Speaker A: Recording it for many people is scary. Telling it to friends. The love and the compassion that I've received from people has been tremendous. And the thing that I've realized is, like, so this guy that I, a good friend of mine at the inpatient facility, was. We were sitting down talking. He's like, I can't tell anybody what's. What has happened to me because they'll never understand. But the answer to that is the people you love don't have to understand. Like, what are the things tonight that have, like, made me cry when you guys are talking? It's the love and compassion. [01:59:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:59:37] Speaker A: It takes zero understanding to give love and compassion. [01:59:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:59:43] Speaker A: And, like, that's what my soul needed, is to receive that. [01:59:47] Speaker B: So good. [01:59:48] Speaker A: Like, to be vulnerable and to receive that, because, like, I was thinking that this was a horrible part of me that you guys should hate me for, but instead, to receive love and compassionate, like, it told my brain and my heart that, like, no, man, you're just hurting, and I'm so sorry. [02:00:08] Speaker C: Yeah, it's okay. [02:00:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Sweet. [02:00:13] Speaker B: Yeah, man. [02:00:14] Speaker A: I don't know. [02:00:15] Speaker B: Let's say, once again, thank you for sharing. Thank you so much. I think we just. I think we gotta end it. I think just hearing your story and just reiterating that we're glad you're here. [02:00:32] Speaker A: Love you, man. Love you guys. [02:00:34] Speaker B: If you ever, ever have one of those panic attacks, you got my number. Double call if it's after like eleven, but I will pick up. [02:00:42] Speaker C: It's double or triple call. [02:00:43] Speaker B: Like double call within three minutes. [02:00:46] Speaker A: Okay. [02:00:47] Speaker B: IPhone. That's your stupid phone. [02:00:48] Speaker C: I don't know. [02:00:51] Speaker A: Doesn't even ring when I call it. [02:00:53] Speaker C: It doesn't, it doesn't have, it's like spooky. Oh, man. And to like reiterate that too, if you're even feeling any part of Ryan's storyline, like, there are people out there that care about you that will help you, there are flight docs that will help you. There are, I mean, your command. [02:01:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Great people in this organization that will look out for you. [02:01:21] Speaker C: Look, it goes all the way to the top. Like, even the commonaut is talking about mental health. So like, this organization is changing in a good direction in regards to that. And so like, it takes a lot of courage to be able to speak up and I hope that you find the courage to do that and to know that there are people out there that care about you. [02:01:43] Speaker A: Yes. [02:01:43] Speaker C: And will help you through that. [02:01:45] Speaker A: Like, I know that I had a great unit like Krugs and whole unit, but like every unit, we have so many good people in this organization. We care so much about everybody. [02:01:57] Speaker C: Yeah. So. [02:01:59] Speaker A: All right. Love you all. [02:02:00] Speaker B: Let's sign off your soul. Gotta take every chance to that you're the kind of man who I'll never. [02:02:24] Speaker C: Look back, never look down and never let go.